Curse

Shadowlance. · May 06, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I didn't mean that people that solo should find another game, but rather that this isn't how it should be played. I only recommend those who have a problem with teamming and aren't satisfied with the soloing in GW to find another game.

I'd like to respectfully point out a flaw in that argument. GW is not intended to be about forcing a particular type of gameplay. You say "this isn't how it should be played" but I say you cannot dictate how the game should be played. You like your heroes and you like to PUG. That is great, and I wish you well. I like my heroes, but I do not like to PUG (nor am I able to most of the time - see my previous post.) I would like to have you "wish me well" in my preferred style of gameplay also. I think GW is a great flexible game that can cater to both styles of play. My desire for more hero utilization will have no impact on your game, since you wouldn't see me in your PUG anyway. However your desire to not have more hero utilization definitely impacts my game.

Tyla · May 06, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yeah, and 7 heroes is IMPROVED soloing because heroes are improved henchmen.

They are still quite stupid from time to time though. Better than your average PuG, still.

Jetdoc · May 06, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

7 heros will be as likely implemented as Ursan will be nerfed: It's not going to happen.

...which is why I left this thread a long time ago, since it's useless arguing the same points over and over again for something that just isn't gonna happen.

It is completely understandable why people that want 7 heroes want to keep this thread alive, however...they are just as fervent as the people that do not want Ursan to be nerfed. The desire for more power isn't something that is easily given up.

MasterSasori · May 06, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlance.

I'd like to respectfully point out a flaw in that argument. GW is not intended to be about forcing a particular type of gameplay. You say "this isn't how it should be played" but I say you cannot dictate how the game should be played. You like your heroes and you like to PUG. That is great, and I wish you well. I like my heroes, but I do not like to PUG (nor am I able to most of the time - see my previous post.) I would like to have you "wish me well" in my preferred style of gameplay also. I think GW is a great flexible game that can cater to both styles of play. My desire for more hero utilization will have no impact on your game, since you wouldn't see me in your PUG anyway. However your desire to not have more hero utilization definitely impacts my game.

Uggh my whole point is that, I think this is how it should be played, I am hardly condemning anyone who doesn't agree with me. I also said myself that I H/H plenty when I can't stand the pugs.

I wish everyone well except elitists in PvE and PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

...which is why I left this thread a long time ago, since it's useless arguing the same points over and over again for something that just isn't gonna happen.

It is completely understandable why people that want 7 heroes want to keep this thread alive, however...they are just as fervent as the people that do not want Ursan to be nerfed. The desire for more power isn't something that is easily given up.

Yeah I'm starting to feel this is getting to be really pointless.

7 heros/ursan whatever, it's not going to happen.

BTW go UT!! I go to UT also.

Red Sonya · May 06, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

On my nightfall box it says: 'Recruit a TEAM of fearless heroes who will fight at your side and follow orders in combat. Customise armour, equip weapons and lead your team to battle.'

I want to make a team of heroes and the box says I can. It doesn't say a team with only 3 heroes.

If all the peeps who want 7 heroes would donate 10 dollar/euro, we could rent a corps of lawyers and sue Anet

In the meantime we all specialise in the fine art of sabotaging pugs. Feel the wrath.

Actually what is says is and I quote:

Quote:

Lead a BAND of Heroes

Also on page 50 of the manual it says

Quote:

a HANDFUL of heroes will stand beside you on your journey

Zahr Dalsk · May 06, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I think I should make it clearer to prevent miscomm - I didn't mean that people that solo should find another game, but rather that this isn't how it should be played. I only recommend those who have a problem with teamming and aren't satisfied with the soloing in GW to find another game.

*Nightfall and Prophecies both advertise the ability to play with AI. As such we are playing exactly how the game was intended to be played. Well, one of two ways. With players or with AI. We happened to choose the AI, which was intended to be an entirely valid method of gameplay. This is exactly how it should be played.

*Edited for correct game.

VinnyRidira · May 06, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I can see that with all the keystroke options and other crap this would be a major task to do from a programming point of view. But if I could select my own heroes as henchmen, no major control over them other than I equip, rune, Imsignia and give them builds. The extra 4 heroes can run in aggressive mode or their profession default mode and I can only have the henchmen group flag pin, then this would be at least a good start. But look at the 25 heroes you have and realise that you can only ever select 3 to pay with at any given time and just weep at ANets reluctance to do what I would suggest the majority of PvE players would like. Shame on you.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 06, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

To those of you, like myself who would enjoy having a full party of heroes, I suggest we begin sending in emails and writing letters. The more people who make contact and request this, the more chance we have of getting it.

This discussion is good for learning insight into more heroes, but unfortunitly many people are posting incorrect information simply to try to ruin our chances, or because they themselves hate heroes.

7 heroes would not grant a great power increase. it would ofcourse give an advantage over henchmen due to customized skillbars, customized weapons and runes and the ability to set flags how we like.

I am going to begin sending emails, writing letters and sending postcards once i get the contact info, I will also post it here in this thread so those of you who want this feature can show support.

We want to be able to control all the heroes, not just 3, we want to be able to flag all our heroes, not just 3.

7 heroes will be better than henchies, but not as good as pugs, the AI is still no replacement for the human mind.

It is a reasonable request that anet WILL accept if enough people show support for it. just like every other idea they have ever accepted, it has to have a good amount of support behind it.

These people who say no to 7 heroes are just players with a grudge against those of us who do not want to be subjected to their in-game bs. They simply want more people as options to pick from, Which is one sided.

Those of you with even a basic understanding of how guildwars works will note that 7 heroes will not overpower solo players, (7 heroes are not stronger than 7 human players) (if you take 7 heroes into certain areas you can still bet on a party wipe). we should have the same power as pugs atleast, and 7 heroes will grant us more fun(tm).

So for those of us who want 7 heroes that would like to contact the company in massive amounts, make yourself known, I will get the contact info and PM you. I have close to 30 players in-game that are going to support this for many reasons. And that was only after 1 day of telling friends and guildies.

Don't let the trolls and naysayers and bitter players discourage you from what you want, But also let us not sit on a fansite and just talk about it, this site wont do us any good if we really want this to happen. We must contact the source and let them know what we want in a respectful way.

With enough support this will happen!

Meralda estat · May 06, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

(Only want to say Sorry for my bad grammer)

I see absolutly no reason why they cant give us the use of 7 Heros. I for one dont play with pugs.. havent done sins the first game if it whasent with my friend that gott me started with GW. I made my own guild with friends and famely because we DONT want to play with pugs. For simple reasons some arent that good with english and are inbarest to type or talk in TS/Vent/Skype so they never pug. Dont want to sit and and read all the crap a inmature brat is typeing or writing on the map or pinging hes brain out.

For people that has stated before that it would hurt the PUG experiens or what i should call it.. It wont!! Because we arent going to pug any bloody way! If i was forced to play with other players i would go back to Final Fantasy XI. I'd rather spend 6 hours there trying to get/form a party because there are more mature players because its a game with monthly costs(No monthly pree payed cards. You need a credidcard!) and therefor it singels out many idiots.

Anet has always stated that this was a game for casual players. It is to some extent, tho if you want to play in some areas sutch as Deep,Urgoz, DoA,FoW,UW you need to play with pugs or frinds. Then we come to the part many here do.. They go AFK when they want to in hero/hency partys. in other groups you cant.. I know i cant always spend a few hours without wanting or needing to go afk and there-fore i dont play these areas.

From my view GW is digging its own grave atm.. they're letting bugs remain in the game that should be fixed. There not really listening to what players want(Sure some things... i dont want to say there ignoring us) and with all these damn uppdates.. i dont know how many i know that has stoped playing because of all the "Nerfs" yes I'll call it nerfs.. I dont liked being TOLD to change my build.. sure i can get around it and have during the last 3 years. Tho many havent and has droped the game.. Tho this seems to be the way Anet wants it.

Regards
/Estat

Hugh Manatee · May 06, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

BTW go UT!! I go to UT also.

Gig 'em tea-sips....

Gun Pierson · May 06, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Actually what is says is and I quote:...

Also on page 50 of the manual it says...

Then you must have another box which is highly doubtful. On mine is the text I quoted. If scans are needed for proof I sugest we both take a scan of our boxes and post them here. Also other people can confirm this if they step up.

The manual is inside the box and you can only read what's on the box when you buy the product. And it says I can recruit a team of fearless heroes. Seems like a cool gaming experience. But instead, we got a teaser. You can only take 3 heroes with you, that's not even half of a team of 8.

Red Sonya · May 06, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

A team could be as little as 2 or in the case of GW 3 heroes plus you.

No need to scan as you would probably photoshop your copy anyways and I have no scanner to begin with. You can read it any way you want to as to what a "team" means vs a "group" or vice versa. That's what they call marketing wording strategy. They put something in words that can be interpreted many different ways, but, of course THEIR interpretation is the only one that is valid. Unless they put an actual figure like You can create a team of SEVEN heroes, then it's only your own imagination that thinks that's what it means when it just says you can recruit a team of heroes.

Jetdoc · May 06, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Gig 'em tea-sips....

I didn't think that you guys had 'puters in them there small towns...where do they fit on your tractors?

Gun Pierson · May 06, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

A team could be as little as 2 or in the case of GW 3 heroes plus you.

No need to scan as you would probably photoshop your copy anyways and I have no scanner to begin with. You can read it any way you want to as to what a "team" means vs a "group" or vice versa. That's what they call marketing wording strategy. They put something in words that can be interpreted many different ways, but, of course THEIR interpretation is the only one that is valid. Unless they put an actual figure like You can create a team of SEVEN heroes, then it's only your own imagination that thinks that's what it means when it just says you can recruit a team of heroes.

So now you accuse me of photoshopping stuff. Next you say you don't have a scanner yourself, neither do I but I'm sure you know someone who can help you out.

The terminology: 'Marketing wording strategy' as you call it doesn't exist. We're done here. I believe it's time for you to find a bridge to live under again.

@Huntmaster Avatar: You can count on me. I have a few ideas myself.

Crom The Pale · May 06, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Just one point of fact, when the game was released and people played with 7Henchmen the monster AI was much much different than it is today.

Now that monsters run from AoE, kite, make better use of healing/resurects it stands to reason that we should get a bost to even the field, either by improving the still abysmall AI and skill bars of Hench or by allowing 7 Heros.

All that being said I don't expect anything to happen untill well after GW2 is launched.

strcpy · May 07, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

That would be your perogative.

My prerogative is to play GW solo - you told me to go elsewhere and think that Diablo II is the place.

Quote:

H/H are to give flexibility in team not to permanently replace players. Yes I know there are plenty of times you would prefer H/H but GW is supposed to be more effective using real people who have developed a feel for GW.

I will quote the box again: "Join with friends or play solo with a band of skillful henchman" (emphasis mine). Note that playing solo (totally replacing players with AI) is part of the design of the game and is an intended play style.

Quote:

I think I should make it clearer to prevent miscomm - I didn't mean that people that solo should find another game, but rather that this isn't how it should be played. I only recommend those who have a problem with teamming and aren't satisfied with the soloing in GW to find another game.

Then I rather suggest you don't tell people to go play another game if you don't mean it. GW is meant to be played solo - all the boxes and the manuals state it and Anet has been adamant that this is the case too. It is also meant to be played with human groups and it is also meant to be played in teams of AI and humans. It was meant to be played the way *you* wanted and they are all just as valid as another.

Quote:

I'm arguing from the player's view. What is best for Anet isn't what I am referring about, I was referring to what the game is supposed to be. I hate Ursan because I think it destroys the game, but would actually suggest Anet to keep some form of it simply because its better for them.

You aren't remotely arguing from a player's view - you are arguing *your* view and making grand proclamations that this is The Way Things Are. Until you become the God of Gamers and can force all of us to your will you have no ability to make those statements. Obviously many player's point of view is that they will not PUG no matter what (pretty much mine - I do from time to time but it isn't when I want to play the game as much as when I want to goof off with other people).

Quote:

I partly agree with this. AI is of course a large part of the game and there really isn't exactly a game like GW. However, if the player prefers to grind and prefer soloing, GW may not suit their wants as well as games such as WoW and D II.

Sure, but I want soloing without grind - seems GW is a pretty dang good fit to me. In fact it is the *only* option out there right now. Since no grind and soloing have always been an integral part of the game it seems I chose well. Since you don't like that too much you didn't choose to well.

Quote:

Obviously certain missions such as the Torment realms, Eternal grove ect. can certainly lead to horrid deaths, but in a way is part of the fun. No risk, no reward. Getting into a good pug takes patience and foresight on everyone's part; having a monk with more ranger skills spells trouble (duh) but not everything is as obvious.

I'm in my 30's - I work and don't have much time to game. I can't spend the time to get said good PUG. Said failure is totally frustrating. If I want frustrating I can go back to work. Nor do I have time to play at peak hours as I am working (most of my gaming is in the 4:00-6:00 am time frame). You can can kiss all of us like that good buy and there quite a few. GW allows me to play, it allows you to play, and it allows ones that have a different style than either of us to play. I like that quite a bit - that is what GW has always been about and soloing is a large part of that.

I've been told to go elsewhere a number of times because my play style doesn't fit what someone else wants - the grand thing is that GW was designed for people like me so I say those who don't like the game need to go elsewhere. I like the game and have no need to tell anyone who is currently liking the games design that they are doing it wrong and to go elsewhere. Solo, group, mix it up, whatever just don't tell me I'm playing the game wrong - especially when I am playing 100% one of the main ways they originally (and still do) envisioned

Quote:

H/H are meant to be an alternative to pugs, not the other way around. It's unfortunate that the more developed PvEer now relies more on H/H more than ever.

They are meant to be equal - neither is the "alternative" to the other. It has been that way since the original design documents.

Quote:

Yes PvE can definitely be soloed but at the same time its also Team oriented. I can't say how much Anet meant for GW PvE is to be team or solo oriented but if its anything like its PvP, other players must play a role.

Fortunately for us Anet has weighed in quite a number of times (not the least of which is in the boxes and manuals) and solo play is quite valid and one of the main ways they envisioned playing. They don't want *any* of the styles to die (and is, rightly or wrongly, the reason they are not going to have 7 heroes any time soon). They will not do anything that kills soloing *or* grouping if they think it will do so.

Quote:

I play equal PvP as I do PvE, so maybe that's why I stress team play being more important that solo play.

Even in PvP you now have hero battles so one can even solo it. That it isn't generally considered fun has more to do with the implementation, but even there they intended one to be able solo it. RA is only loosely team oriented as you can't (well, I guess not supposed to be able too) make a team. It isn't until TA that you get actual team oriented PvP.

Quote:

I envision GW 2 to be pretty different from GW so I will have to see what it's about. Whether or not PvE is to my liking, there is always PvP. I usually H/H myself but when I want to have fun, I pug.

That's fine - many players are the opposite. Both sides are considered "A" rank styles of play. Therefore you can play your game and have fun and I can play mine and have fun. Unfortunately some (such as yourself) want to dictate to me how I have fun and I can't see how you think you can remotely do so any more than I can tell you that you are not having fun and are doing it wrong when you PUG.

Quote:

7 heros will be as likely implemented as Ursan will be nerfed: It's not going to happen.

I think 7 heroes will eventually happen but it will be a long ways off. Basically until the player base gets small enough they pretty much have too (most likely after the release of GW2). I don't think Ursan will be nerfed either - it is one of the few things that really promotes grouping even though it demotes build variety.

cthulhu reborn · May 07, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Which single player RPG is the same thing as GW?

Oh wait, none?

Yes she is. /agree.

Nonesense. I may be direct at times but that's far from being a troll. All I am saying is that GW is an online game that is played with other people. You want it to be like a rpg which is defeating it's own purpose. Now as I mentioned it is possible to do the vast majority of the game with heroes and henchies so Anet have already done a lot for people who want to be able to do so.

The whole point of games like this is that you can play with other people and therefore I think you'd be better of playing an rpg. Maybe a solution for you is a stand alone version of the game for single players but you don't need to play online for that and why would Anet want to do that?

It just seems ironic that you play an online game and complain that you have to play with other people to get some stuff done. It's like going to the store and ask them for a strawberry cake and then come back to complain that it doesn't taste like banana's or something.

cthulhu reborn · May 07, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

GW IS a single player rpg,and it is also a multiplayer rpg, Its up to the player how they choose to play it. I'v beaten all the games with H/H. I think I played 3 missions with a friend and thats it. So find something new to say.

Explain that to the other guy. He is complaining about having to play with other people. You just proved my point so thanks for that.

Sleeper Service · May 07, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

(...)

Fortunately for us Anet has weighed in quite a number of times (not the least of which is in the boxes and manuals) and solo play is quite valid and one of the main ways they envisioned playing. They don't want *any* of the styles to die (and is, rightly or wrongly, the reason they are not going to have 7 heroes any time soon). They will not do anything that kills soloing *or* grouping if they think it will do so.

Unfortunately Anet has also stated that 7 heroes goes against their "developer vision".

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

I think 7 heroes will eventually happen but it will be a long ways off. Basically until the player base gets small enough they pretty much have too (most likely after the release of GW2). I don't think Ursan will be nerfed either - it is one of the few things that really promotes grouping even though it demotes build variety.

Ironically i cant think of ANYTHING that flys in the face of their "developer vision" more than bear.

Zahr Dalsk · May 07, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Unfortunately Anet has also stated that 7 heroes goes against their "developer vision".

Yes, and they seem to ignore the fact that their developer vision is already dead. The PUG players themselves killed it.